Ballade and Von's Collab. Gravity Team

[Ballade]

Here's the team that Von PMed me and changed up, with my edit in blue. Everything else that isn't in blue is in his own words:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Sand Stream
Impish 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Earthquake
Slack Off
Roar
Stealth Rock

Clearly one of the best pokemon for a Stall based team. Sandstream + reliable recovery + stealth rock + phazing ability. He's also bulky enough to not be OHKO'd by any standard lead, and he carries STAB EQ off 108 base attack, which under Gravity hits everything.


Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Pressure
Impish 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Gravity
Earthquake
Pain Split / Rest
Will-O-Wisp

The Spin-Blocker, and secondary Grav user. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical sweepers, and EQ again hits everything once Grav is up. I'm considering Rest as an alternative to Pain Split due to Heal Bell Celebi's presence.


Blissey @ Leftovers
Nat Cure
Calm 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SpD
Gravity
Softboiled
Fire Blast / Seismic Toss
Toxic / Charm

Bliss' job hasn't changed, though the moveset looks a little different. The primary Gravity user, as well as Special Sponge. Seismic Toss is more reliable damage than FB, and Charm forces more switches than Toxic is likely to, which is a plus seeing as running entry hazards is the main form of damage here.


Forretress @ Shed Shell
Sturdy
Relaxed 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Spikes
Rapid Spin
Rest
Toxic Spikes

The Spiker. Numerous resistances allow him to switch in, where he promptly sets up all those lovely entry hazards. Rest again allows for reliable recovery with Heal Bell waiting in the wings. He can also serve as a rapid spinner to remove the opponent's entry hazards if they pose a problem.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Grass Knot
Recover
Heal Bell
Leech Seed

The Cleric. Standard defensive Seed/Cleric Celebi. Leftovers + Leech Seed for stalling + Instant recovery if it's needed. Heal Bell is to wake up Dusknoir/Forretress when they go to sleep.

Rhyperior@Life Orb(???)
Solid Rock
Adamant
252 Atk/200 HP/56 Def
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Megahorn
-Dragon Rush

The Physical Attacker in the game, it has STAB EQ and Stone Edge, and everything benefits from Gravity. Dragon Rush helps hit whatever and is pretty much there as a filler move, since there's not a whole lot that can really fill in there.

Personally, I want Starmie in there somewhere. It helps take on so many threats, such as Infernape (Mixape can wreck through this team somethin' fierce), as well as outrun Salamence and the like. The only possible Pokemon I can think of that switching it out for would be Celebi, but Celebi acts as the cleric and uses Heal Bell whenever the others are asleep, since Blissey can't use it thanks to Gravity. With that in mind, it's possible to use Pain Split instead of Rest, and then put Starmie in there to help. Once the Sandstorm clears and Gravity is still up, Starmie can sweep all across the board, and give just a bit more power to the team so that it isn't completely reliant on Spikes and switches.

[Von]

Originally Posted by Ballade

Here's the team that Von PMed me and changed up, with my edit in blue. Everything else that isn't in blue is in his own words:

[Blah Blah Blah]

Rhyperior@Life Orb(???)
Solid Rock
Adamant
252 Atk/200 HP/56 Def
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Megahorn
-Dragon Rush

The Physical Attacker in the game, it has STAB EQ and Stone Edge, and everything benefits from Gravity. Dragon Rush helps hit whatever and is pretty much there as a filler move, since there's not a whole lot that can really fill in there.

Imo if we use Rhyperior as you're suggesting, I think Roar might be a good option to throw into his moveset somewhere, as at the moment we only have a single phazer. Plus a more defensive EV spread, he shouldn't need to have such high Atk with entry hazards out the wazoo.


Personally, I want Starmie in there somewhere. It helps take on so many threats, such as Infernape (Mixape can wreck through this team somethin' fierce)

Which is why I had ScarfTran in there originally instead of Rhyperior. With the entry hazards, if he switches out, he gets hammered when he comes back, something he can't afford. If he doesn't, Earth Power rips him a new one. ScarfTran can also use a predicted Fire move to come in on to stop that kind of sweeping nonsense.

As well as outrun Salamence and the like. The only possible Pokemon I can think of that switching it out for would be Celebi, but Celebi acts as the cleric and uses Heal Bell whenever the others are asleep, since Blissey can't use it thanks to Gravity. With that in mind, it's possible to use Pain Split instead of Rest

Which is what I originally had planned, but when I realised I could kill two birds with one stone and have Forry resting as well, I decided Celebi could be decidedly useful.

And then put Starmie in there to help. Once the Sandstorm clears and Gravity is still up, Starmie can sweep all across the board, and give just a bit more power to the team so that it isn't completely reliant on Spikes and switches.

It's not completely reliant on them. Just entirely. Honestly I could see it replacing Rhyperior, but I still think Heatran is sexier.

Hopefully the team sufficiently incorporates some of the advice that's been given. Though I still didn't really try very hard to find a spot for Tangrowth I'm sad to say.

[Ballade]

It's kind of situational though, and honestly, it seems as if Rhyperior's the better choice because of it's ability to greatly lower the amount of damage it takes from SE attacks (2x becomes 1.33x, and 4x becomes 2.66x), whereas Heatran takes 4x from EQ. Sandstorm also helps out Rhyperior in handling the special attacks just a bit more so, and it IS a free boost.

Though, the thought of Tyranitar being in there may be more useful, since it can also roar, but has access to Dragon Dance, Stone Edge, Earthquake, and Roar, as well as having more Sp. Def to work with.

[Von]

Originally Posted by Ballade

it seems as if Rhyperior's the better choice because of it's ability to greatly lower the amount of damage it takes from SE attacks (2x becomes 1.5x, and 4x becomes 3x)

*Fixed* - It's 25% less not 33%

But I see your point. Guess we need another opinion.

[rhadfii]

You Rhyperior spread doesn't seem very useful. Run something like this

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
132 HP / 192 Atk / 16 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn / Swords Dance

The EVs give you 404 HP which allows you to create 101 Subs, thus avoiding Seismic Toss and Ice Beams from Blissey. This makes Blissey a great set up Poke. Cress is in the same boat, it can't break the subs unless it has a Charge Beam/Calm Mind boost. From there you can either attack with 400 Atk or boost it to 800 with an SD. It's up to you there. Personally, I would run Megahorn because you don't want to waste time setting up while you have Gravity in play, but by having Swords Dance then you can become a huge threat even without Gravity in play. It's up to you.

[Diarago]

Originally Posted by ChaosZR

You Rhyperior spread doesn't seem very useful. Run something like this

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
132 HP / 192 Atk / 16 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn / Swords Dance

The EVs give you 404 HP which allows you to create 101 Subs, thus avoiding Seismic Toss and Ice Beams from Blissey. This makes Blissey a great set up Poke. Cress is in the same boat, it can't break the subs unless it has a Charge Beam/Calm Mind boost. From there you can either attack with 400 Atk or boost it to 800 with an SD. It's up to you there. Personally, I would run Megahorn because you don't want to waste time setting up while you have Gravity in play, but by having Swords Dance then you can become a huge threat even without Gravity in play. It's up to you.

You beat me to it.

This isn't a Trick Room team, so Rhyperior isn't going to just blow away everything with a prioritized Swords Dance for a couple of turns. Substitute will allow Rhyperior the key KOs he needs against all of his counters on an opposing team. Moreover, as Celebi will become the only true threat to Rhyperior, it would be a good idea to pair this with Heatran if you elect to use Swords Dance...which I highly recommend.

Now, Celebi and Infernape do give this team a bit of problems, but Heatran as a revenge killer may help you to remedy some of those problems. But...you know, Rhyperior does kind of deviate from the hyper-defensive nature of the rest of the team, which could be the source of your perceived problems. The Pokemon are all good, but their typing is rather unfortunate is all.

[Ballade]

Oy, I'm starting to wonder if this Gravity team is worth it ><

Oh well, maybe the next generation will bring in/let more Pokemon use Gravity, and a more offensively based Gravity team can be made.

[Diarago]

Originally Posted by Ballade

Oy, I'm starting to wonder if this Gravity team is worth it ><

Oh well, maybe the next generation will bring in/let more Pokemon use Gravity, and a more offensively based Gravity team can be made.

...Or you can help pioneer the premise of effective Gravity teams this generation as opposed to the next. Yeah, team rosters for it can be very limited, but I think that it's very possible to make an effective team. I've tried Trick Room about 3 times and it hasn't worked, but I've seen some other people do it, and it completely destroys my teams because the tactics are so cunning.

Look, it's a good thing that there's so much skepticism about this team. If you really want to stretch the concept, then you'll keep trying new ideas until it feels right. It's a lot better than trying the team on Shoddy and watching it fall apart for some reason that you just can't perceive.

The team has direction, but just not a sturdy structure. The Pokemon here are all great candidates for a Gravity stall team, but most of them don't exactly pair well with one another is all I'm saying. There's no wrong way to do it; all of us are trying to help you fin the best way to do it. Pretty much no one's done this before, so there's a reason it's so difficult.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Ballade

Jirachi can't learn Dynamic Punch, the only Fighting attacks it has are Drain Punch and HP Fighting.

//Defensive is definetly the way to go with gravity. It's much more effective. Blissey and dusknoir make a great walling combinatino and they are both great users of gravity. Then you need to fill in components of your standard stall team.//

So it's stuck at a stand-still. The primary Gravity users in the OU are defensively based, yet the team is supposed to be more offensively based =\

Crap ><

Lrn2Movetutorfromoldergames.

It can. =oo

[Ballade]

Originally Posted by Diarago

...Or you can help pioneer the premise of effective Gravity teams this generation as opposed to the next. Yeah, team rosters for it can be very limited, but I think that it's very possible to make an effective team. I've tried Trick Room about 3 times and it hasn't worked, but I've seen some other people do it, and it completely destroys my teams because the tactics are so cunning.

Look, it's a good thing that there's so much skepticism about this team. If you really want to stretch the concept, then you'll keep trying new ideas until it feels right. It's a lot better than trying the team on Shoddy and watching it fall apart for some reason that you just can't perceive.

The team has direction, but just not a sturdy structure. The Pokemon here are all great candidates for a Gravity stall team, but most of them don't exactly pair well with one another is all I'm saying. There's no wrong way to do it; all of us are trying to help you fin the best way to do it. Pretty much no one's done this before, so there's a reason it's so difficult.

I guess. If I fiddle around with the idea enough, I may come up with an idea. I'll probably have to wait until the next gen, if I actually decide to get involved with it. If I do, hopefully Nintendo will have made more Pokemon that can learn Gravity, or make it more broadly available (because something tells me it's a move that every Psychic type should be able to use), and hopefully move powerful-yet-inaccurate moves will have shown up, or something to make Earthquake more useful than it already is so that definitely a focus for it.

Originally Posted by Harpuia

Lrn2Movetutorfromoldergames.

It can. =oo

You could have mentioned that, it's not exactly something that's listed on Serebii.