Mr. Original Moveset Creator

[Rookie]

Originally Posted by jgreenberg

Umbreon @leftovers
Synchronize
Sassy nature (+SpDef, -Speed)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SDef, 4 Atk
-Yawn/Wish
-Protect
-Curse
-Payback

I think this set is decently original. It is a great lure for scizors and lucarios that attempt to ohko umbreon. How to use it: bring umbreon out on something that you know will switch. Use yawn on the switch; if a scizor comes out, it's probably going to use u-turn thinking that it will ko and switch out of the yawn. You would use protect here to put scizor to sleep. Once scizor is taken care of, curse and payback can make for a "late game sweep" if steels (especially lucario) are out of the way. Toxic spikes are a big help as umbreon can curse up while the opponent loses hp.

This umbreon has problems with steel physical walls like forretress and skarmory who can explode to take a chunk of hp out or whirlwind to get rid of stat boosts. This umbreon also has problems keeping its hp high without wish. It can be paired with a flying type (preferably not a normal/flying type) to match its bug and fighting weaknesses, and take care of fighters. Another teammate option is a ghost type (gengar works really well with its 4x resistance to bug) to match weaknesses.

Actually, it's not original. Curse+Payback+Wish is what all Umbreons run nowadays.

All it makes Scizor do is Uturn it to death. Lucario justs SDs in its face and makes Umbreon a burden instead of a helper. Your opponent may decide to stay in and activate sleep clause with a wall-ish thing or their lead or whatever.

Umbreon is my favorite pokemon of all time, don't get me wrong. It just can't use a general sweeper set like this in today's metagame. It still works on specialized teams like trick room and baton pass if utilized correctly, however.

[R3I]

This is something I made that I like to call Gliscor-bait Tyranitar.


Tyranitar @ Expert Belt / Shuca Berry
Brave Nature | Sandstream
112 HP | 252 Atk | 120 SAtk | 24 Spd
~ Crunch
~ Pursuit
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam

Basically, this Tyranitar is designed to clear the stage for something like Lucario to sweep, as Gliscor is one of the best Lucario counters. It can also effectively fake a Choice Band set with Expert Belt. Ideally, you should try to use Earthquake to lure Gliscor in, and instead Ice Beam it in the face to knock it out for good. However, sometimes that doesn't work because Gliscor may fear a Stone Edge or something (as it doesn't resist it). That's where Shuca Berry comes in. But Gliscor can't OHKO Tyranitar in the first place, so the Shuca Berry isn't needed, per se. Expert Belt gives you much more power when hitting Celebi, Cresselia, and Dusknoir with your beastly Dark-type attacks, so it's probably the better item choice. It's also extremely funny watching a Salamence switch in, expecting to use a Tyranitar locked into Earthquake or Pursuit as set up bait, only to get nailed where it hurts by an Ice Beam. Even if Salamence decides to Earthquake instead, it can't OHKO unless it's holding a Choice Band (wtf CB Salamence?). Lucario will often try to set up on Tyranitar as well, after switching in after a Pursuit.

The 120 SAtk EVs are intended to 2HKO Hippowdon with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage. That being said, it will obviously suffice to OHKO Gliscor, and Salamence and its Dragon buddies (Flygon and Dragonite). 252 Atk EVs gives you maximum physical attacking power, and finally 24 HP EVs puts you ahead of your typically Blissey by one point.

[jgreenberg]

Originally Posted by Rookie

Actually, it's not original. Curse+Payback+Wish is what all Umbreons run nowadays.

All it makes Scizor do is Uturn it to death. Lucario justs SDs in its face and makes Umbreon a burden instead of a helper. Your opponent may decide to stay in and activate sleep clause with a wall-ish thing or their lead or whatever.

Umbreon is my favorite pokemon of all time, don't get me wrong. It just can't use a general sweeper set like this in today's metagame. It still works on specialized teams like trick room and baton pass if utilized correctly, however.

I meant for the moveset to be like this:
-Yawn
-Wish/Protect (protect is better)
-Curse
-Payback

Also, I don't think you're understanding the strategy here. By yawning on the switch and then protecting, scizor hoping to u-turn out of the yawn gets put to sleep. Then you can send in pokemon to set up. This happens a lot to me and the surprise factor is really fun and ••••es the opponent off like no other.

Here's another situation. It's late game; you send out umbreon and your opponent sends out lucario. You yawn first turn, and either lucario SDs or close combats. If he SDs you can protect next turn to put him to sleep. If he close combats, you have a dead umbreon, but the opponent then has a -1 def, -1 sdef lucario with no swords dance. This allows you to switch something else in to easily dispatch lucario, ruining their attempt at a late game sweep.

Umbreon, like any pokemon, has its counters, but this set is specifically designed to ruin your opponents attempt at easily wrecking your umbreon.

[Sarcasjak]

Originally Posted by jgreenberg

I meant for the moveset to be like this:
-Yawn
-Wish/Protect (protect is better)
-Curse
-Payback

Also, I don't think you're understanding the strategy here. By yawning on the switch and then protecting, scizor hoping to u-turn out of the yawn gets put to sleep. Then you can send in pokemon to set up. This happens a lot to me and the surprise factor is really fun and ••••es the opponent off like no other.

Here's another situation. It's late game; you send out umbreon and your opponent sends out lucario. You yawn first turn, and either lucario SDs or close combats. If he SDs you can protect next turn to put him to sleep. If he close combats, you have a dead umbreon, but the opponent then has a -1 def, -1 sdef lucario with no swords dance. This allows you to switch something else in to easily dispatch lucario, ruining their attempt at a late game sweep.

Umbreon, like any pokemon, has its counters, but this set is specifically designed to ruin your opponents attempt at easily wrecking your umbreon.

I don't think you're understanding the topic.

[jgreenberg]

Originally Posted by Sarcasjak

I don't think you're understanding the topic.

The point of this is to make creative, nonstandard movesets. This one is creative in the sense that it can disable its counters. That's what I was trying to get across. Here's another one that I thought of:

Vaporeon @leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 188 HP, 252 Def, 68 Speed
-Surf
-Ice Beam/HP Electric
-Wish
-Roar/Heal Bell

Decently standard, it can survive a +1 Outrage from Salamence and OHKO back with Ice Beam. Same thing for Gyarados with HP Electric. Roar and Heal Bell both have their pluses.

[Sarcasjak]

Originally Posted by jgreenberg

The point of this is to make creative, nonstandard movesets. This one is creative in the sense that it can disable its counters. That's what I was trying to get across. Here's another one that I thought of:

Vaporeon @leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 188 HP, 252 Def, 68 Speed
-Surf
-Ice Beam/HP Electric
-Wish
-Roar/Heal Bell

Decently standard, it can survive a +1 Outrage from Salamence and OHKO back with Ice Beam. Same thing for Gyarados with HP Electric. Roar and Heal Bell both have their pluses.

That's basically standard.

[XxGinxX]

Originally Posted by R3I

This is something I made that I like to call Gliscor-bait Tyranitar.


Tyranitar @ Expert Belt / Shuca Berry
Brave Nature | Sandstream
112 HP | 252 Atk | 120 SAtk | 24 Spd
~ Crunch
~ Pursuit
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam

Basically, this Tyranitar is designed to clear the stage for something like Lucario to sweep, as Gliscor is one of the best Lucario counters. It can also effectively fake a Choice Band set with Expert Belt. Ideally, you should try to use Earthquake to lure Gliscor in, and instead Ice Beam it in the face to knock it out for good. However, sometimes that doesn't work because Gliscor may fear a Stone Edge or something (as it doesn't resist it). That's where Shuca Berry comes in. But Gliscor can't OHKO Tyranitar in the first place, so the Shuca Berry isn't needed, per se. Expert Belt gives you much more power when hitting Celebi, Cresselia, and Dusknoir with your beastly Dark-type attacks, so it's probably the better item choice. It's also extremely funny watching a Salamence switch in, expecting to use a Tyranitar locked into Earthquake or Pursuit as set up bait, only to get nailed where it hurts by an Ice Beam. Even if Salamence decides to Earthquake instead, it can't OHKO unless it's holding a Choice Band (wtf CB Salamence?). Lucario will often try to set up on Tyranitar as well, after switching in after a Pursuit.

The 120 SAtk EVs are intended to 2HKO Hippowdon with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage. That being said, it will obviously suffice to OHKO Gliscor, and Salamence and its Dragon buddies (Flygon and Dragonite). 252 Atk EVs gives you maximum physical attacking power, and finally 24 HP EVs puts you ahead of your typically Blissey by one point.

Nice idea this set seems really good.Only major problem is perhaps gyarados :/.It can counter luke and your ttar.You could perhaps carry stone edge>crunch?(Dont like it much but well its a suggestion=D )

[Ballade]

Originally Posted by XxGinxX

Nice idea this set seems really good.Only major problem is perhaps gyarados :/.It can counter luke and your ttar.You could perhaps carry stone edge>crunch?(Dont like it much but well its a suggestion=D )

Depends. Gyarados fears Stone Edge from TTar, especially once TTar gets a DD up, and unless three moves were used, you can't send Gyarados out on TTar. Dragon Dance > Pursuit seems better because you throw TTar out on the switch, DD up, and then let loose. Gyarados won't come out on TTar until you've shown that it doesn't have Stone Edge or Thunder Punch. Gyarados will stay in the reserves until the opponent knows you aren't packing those two moves, or even just Stone Edge (I think TTar is capable of surviving a non-boosted Waterfall from Gyara with just the basic stats).

The only change I'd make to the set is Ice Punch > Beam. It's Special Stat is pretty decent, but with it's sheer attack power, it should still be able to OHKO anything that's 4x weak to Ice. That also lets you put in those Sp. Attack EVs into it's HP and Def. or Speed.

[R3I]

Originally Posted by XxGinxX

Nice idea this set seems really good.Only major problem is perhaps gyarados :/.It can counter luke and your ttar.You could perhaps carry stone edge>crunch?(Dont like it much but well its a suggestion=D )

Well, I mean it depends on what else you carry on your team right? I currently use this Tyranitar on a team with HP Electric Wish-Protect Vaporeon, who can check Gyarados any day, even Bounce variants. Besides, when would Gyarados ever switch into Tyranitar? That's like asking for suicide.

@ Ballade: I thought about that, but that means I won't be able to 2HKO Hippowdon, and my attack stat would be lowered by Salamence's Intimidate and whatnot. It'll also be a problem if Gliscor decides to use Yache Berry. And this Tyranitar is actually intended to help Lucario set up for a sweep, so it needs Pursuit to take down fleeing Celebi, Rotom-H, and Cresselia.

[R3I]

You're talking about Bait Tyranitar? If you look at the Nature, Moveset, and EV spread, they're considerably different.

Plus, it serves a completely different purpose. This Tyranitar is intended to draw Gliscor out, and OHKO it with Ice Beam, as well as trapping those Pokémon that give Lucario trouble. People have suggested that I go with Stone Edge over Ice Beam, but honestly, the 80% accuracy is a pain in the ass sometimes, as I've had it miss 4 times in a row before.