Serious Discussion Suggestion

[Bluestrat]

Originally Posted by Snakepit

I do love the idea, I even suggested something extremely similar this this last summer. A good discussion on, the war in Afghanistan for example, is something I rather enjoy. I especially like the idea as something to counter and balance F&G.

But the issue is that it was attempted back in 2007, and just blew up in everyones faces. Hard. It's pretty frustrating for the admins, as Dani once put it, to be "repeatedly hammering our hands and missing the nail"

There's a few issues with the idea, I'll briefly mention some of the more obvious ones now.

One, being that people will be sour if they're not allowed in, or kicked out of, the serious discussions area. People will see it like being slapped in the face and being called immature, and take offense to it. The last thing we need is the feedback section filling up with threads like "FC staff are favoritism elitists", "Snakepit is an idiot" "R1kk1 r shud be fired k lulululul". We don't want to divide up the members into different groups, it gets messy and I can see the people with access to it acting like they're above everyone else.

Another issue is the amount of work involved. With your idea, we need to create a few new usergroups, new forums, an application process, and after it's all set up, we have to monitor it constantly so that it doesn't inevitably get out of hand. Seems like hours of work for something that will probably fall flat on it's rear after about a week.

Agreed.
It's been tried before, and it's never really worked out.

This is a gaming website, not a serious discussion website. I'm sure there are plenty of serious discussion forums. You can even create your own; or you could try having discussions in your blog.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Snakepit

I do love the idea, I even suggested something extremely similar this this last summer. A good discussion on, the war in Afghanistan for example, is something I rather enjoy. I especially like the idea as something to counter and balance F&G.

But the issue is that it was attempted back in 2007, and just blew up in everyones faces. Hard. It's pretty frustrating for the admins, as Dani once put it, to be "repeatedly hammering our hands and missing the nail"

There's a few issues with the idea, I'll briefly mention some of the more obvious ones now.

One, being that people will be sour if they're not allowed in, or kicked out of, the serious discussions area. People will see it like being slapped in the face and being called immature, and take offense to it. The last thing we need is the feedback section filling up with threads like "FC staff are favoritism elitists", "Snakepit is an idiot" "R1kk1 r shud be fired k lulululul". We don't want to divide up the members into different groups, it gets messy and I can see the people with access to it acting like they're above everyone else.

Another issue is the amount of work involved. With your idea, we need to create a few new usergroups, new forums, an application process, and after it's all set up, we have to monitor it constantly so that it doesn't inevitably get out of hand. Seems like hours of work for something that will probably fall flat on it's rear after about a week.

I can guarantee that this plan has NEVER been tried here at FC. I've done my research. Shoot, the way I came up with my idea was by looking at the history of failures that FC has had. Trust me, this is almost fool proof. Sure there could be some lose ends down the line, but even the Articles of Confederation had to be revised.

As for your next point, I know that people will be sour if they are declined entry. It's like that with everything. It SHOULD be like that.

If they do get sour/aggressive when declined entry, then that just shows they didn't deserve it in the first place. We could use the declination as a way to, yet again, filter out the immature ones. Good idea? Yeah. Very. Besides, a few people already think the staff is composed of "Favortism Elitists," so what bad will it do? I've even said a few of those quotes, to be honest. The fact is, no matter what the staff does, there will always be opposition like that. It's always like that with power figures.

Onward with the next note, people in the FCU don't act like their above anyone else, at least, I don't see it. Why is that? Oh, it's because GOOD MODERATORS/RECRUITERS picked the RIGHT PEOPLE to join. Why can't this method be repeated for Serious Discussion? I mean, we could even add a "Serious Discussion" section to the FCU, and you could integrate the current system you guys use for FCU recruitment into Serious Discussion recruit. It won't take long at all to set it up, because it's already more than half way done.

As for an application process, we can use the "Proving Grounds" for that. It'd be rather simple.

If it DOES fall flat on it's rear end, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to pick back up with revision. We'd just need to tweak it. Perfection is a moving target, but that doesn't mean we can't aim for it.

Originally Posted by Bluestrat

Agreed.
It's been tried before, and it's never really worked out.

This is a gaming website, not a serious discussion website. I'm sure there are plenty of serious discussion forums. You can even create your own; or you could try having discussions in your blog.

I'm not sure if you just don't realize that my idea hasn't been done before, that it's really not that hard to put into action, and that it's a really simple process... or if you just haven't read the thread.

There are other gaming websites that have Serious Discussion; and sure, they fail.

This system is different though, you can see that there are plenty of people interested in serious discussion. I mean, we're even having one now! So, why don't we integrate it into the FCU, and give it a shot? If it works out, we could make it it's own thing.

Like, look, we're furthering the idea of it instead of stagnating it with a constructive argument. Keep this up guys. Serious Discussion is becoming more accepted, whether we know it or not.

[R1kk1]

First of all, I want to thank you Sky. I'll be honest, I've always had a perceived view of you, that you were one of the immature ones, but you've completely turned my opinion of you upside down. You've put it nicely, and not only that but you've discussed it nicely afterwards.

It's a nice idea, I'll give you that. There are two main things that worry me.

Firstly, this will take a lot of work. A hell of a lot, in fact, and I've seen first hand from previous teams (such as the past Events Team) that if things aren't given the right time, attention, and most importantly, REAL motivated people, the project will fail, and it will fail hard. Motivation comes just like your activity, in bursts and spurts. You'll find a team of people who say they are dedicated to scouring the Sub Forum to see if people should be in the Serious discussion area, and within a week those same people can't be bothered, or have gone AWOL.

Secondly, they people who don't get it will, and I guarantee you this, make a fuss, which would have been easily avoided. Whilst this may prove that they aren't mature enough, it is none of our places to be calling another member mature or immature, no matter the circumstances.

This being said, I do like your idea. Maybe it's just the way it's presented. But I know the FC community is screaming out for a serious discussion forum, and there is a sizeable part of me that wants to deliver. Past experiences are stopping not only me, but the entire Admin team from going down that road again.

This doesn't mean that I am just going to say 'no' and tell you to get on your bikes. This conversation is going nicely, and if there's a chance we can reach some sort of meeting grounds then maybe this could work. More input from other members would be great, and if you could get a couple of people on this and start brainstorming some ideas, then I'd be more then happy to listen to them and take them into consideration. I hope that sounds fair.

[Envioux]

Originally Posted by SnakePit

People will see it like being slapped in the face and being called immature, and take offense to it.

As Sky already mentioned, this is inevitable. If anything, the people who do get declined can learn from their mistakes, grow up, and more and more people can contribute in serious discussion. If that happens, the majority of mature and respectful people on the site will increase. I'm not saying this will get rid of trolls, it's a forum. There will always be trolls. What I am saying is that if more people mature, the site as a whole can become better. Serious Discussion is good.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by R1kk1

First of all, I want to thank you Sky. I'll be honest, I've always had a perceived view of you, that you were one of the immature ones, but you've completely turned my opinion of you upside down. You've put it nicely, and not only that but you've discussed it nicely afterwards.

It's a nice idea, I'll give you that. There are two main things that worry me.

Firstly, this will take a lot of work. A hell of a lot, in fact, and I've seen first hand from previous teams (such as the past Events Team) that if things aren't given the right time, attention, and most importantly, REAL motivated people, the project will fail, and it will fail hard. Motivation comes just like your activity, in bursts and spurts. You'll find a team of people who say they are dedicated to scouring the Sub Forum to see if people should be in the Serious discussion area, and within a week those same people can't be bothered, or have gone AWOL.

Secondly, they people who don't get it will, and I guarantee you this, make a fuss, which would have been easily avoided. Whilst this may prove that they aren't mature enough, it is none of our places to be calling another member mature or immature, no matter the circumstances.

This being said, I do like your idea. Maybe it's just the way it's presented. But I know the FC community is screaming out for a serious discussion forum, and there is a sizeable part of me that wants to deliver. Past experiences are stopping not only me, but the entire Admin team from going down that road again.

this doesn't mean that I am just going to say 'no' and tell you to get on your bikes. This conversation is going nicely, and if there's a chance we can reach some sort of meeting grounds then maybe this could work. more input from other members would be great, and if you could get a couple of people on this and start brainstorming some ideas, then I'd be more then happy to listen to them and take them into consideration. I hope that sounds fair.

Okay, we're getting somewhere, heres an idea:

I know you guys think it'll take a lot of work, but, as I said, revisions to plans can be made.

The FCU. An invitational part of the site that only a selected few can see. Members are recruited based upon their skill in certain fields, be it the game itself, or discussing the game.

We could integrated my plan, Serious Discussion, into the FCU.

Make a Serious Discussion forum in the FCU, and then your work is done. All you have do do next is watch the public "Proving Grounds" and recruit those whom you see are mature and informed enough to take place in the real Serious Discussion forum, and make their own topics there instead of just posting.

Simple? I think so. If any of you disagree, please explain why. Don't give me anymore of this "Serious Discussion just doesn't work here!" stuff. I want to know WHY. I believe it doesn't work here because, to put it simply, we as a group don't believe it will. We just need to overcome this wall we're behind,(Lets called the wall Fun and Games,) and get to where we want to be.

I think, therefore I am.

[Shaco]

Read the OP, nothing after that btw ;o

You have Fijal's support.

[Snakepit]

We do like the idea, we just have to cover all the angles so we don't have a repeat of the last serious discussion forum. I do love serious discussions myself, but whether or not it's a good thing for the site as a whole is yet to be determined. There's a million ways it can go wrong, and make the whole thing a waste of time, and we want to avoid that.

I do see this as being a good thing for the site, especially as something to balance out the Fun & Games forum. But along with the issues I outlined before, there's still the looming image of the previous Serious Discussions forum in the back of our minds, and that just isn't a pleasant thought.

So, we're not saying no, but you'll have to forgive us for being a little skeptical. It's our job to point out all the little flaws, and it's a little discouraging to see the cons just waved off with comments like "That never happened" and "That's inevitable"

[DoctorPhil]

Seems like a good idea to me :/

[WolfTeenZylo]

Originally Posted by Snakepit

So, we're not saying no, but you'll have to forgive us for being a little skeptical. It's our job to point out all the little flaws, and it's a little discouraging to see the cons just waved off with comments like "That never happened" and "That's inevitable"

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical. I wouldn't do something that could change alot of things on the site without first asking questions, and making sure that aren't potential flaws that could backfire in the end.

I support the Serious Suggestion Thread. In Sky's first post, s/he says s/he is unable to have serious discussion with other individuals in real life. I myself take online courses, and so I also do not have the opportunity to speak my mind on religon and politics, in an enviornment I feel comfortable expressing my opinions in. While some go to Youtube to discuss their opinions, many youtube users are hostile, unlike the friendly folks here at friendcodes

[OmgWut]

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