In reply to those who believe there isn't a best character...

[Freakemon]

they exist in some people's minds. tiers exist in the people who are too serious about video games. tiers from my point of view just shows the most overused characters that the majority of people like. tiers is more like a popularity contest to me. I think most people say game and watch is bottom tier is because they can't use and master him.

yea I believe people are going to start making arguments against me.

[GaMbLe]

Tiers exist, such as they determine which characters are easy to use and which aren't. As far as the potential of the character is concerned, that all depends on the player.

[ETC]

Originally Posted by Freakemon

they exist in some people's minds. tiers exist in the people who are too serious about video games. tiers from my point of view just shows the most overused characters that the majority of people like. tiers is more like a popularity contest to me. I think most people say game and watch is bottom tier is because they can't use and master him.

yea I believe people are going to start making arguments against me.

That's how I see it, too.

[PowaStar]

Originally Posted by Freakemon

they exist in some people's minds. tiers exist in the people who are too serious about video games. tiers from my point of view just shows the most overused characters that the majority of people like. tiers is more like a popularity contest to me. I think most people say game and watch is bottom tier is because they can't use and master him.

yea I believe people are going to start making arguments against me.

what the... i lol'd G&W isnt bottom tier he'll end up being high tier a lot of people like him including me also....
the prima guide fails dont use those strats it wont help you that much in the long run.

also snake is the best and thats coming from a competitive smasher who uses wolf (mid tier) its just saying he can have a higher chance of winning (and i clearly see why) you can use a character and still win just how if the karate student beat his master it doesnt mean the student is the best the student will still have a while to actually become the best just like todays tier list people think its set in stone or something just like I said last time even jiggs can be the best in the game but its gonna take ALOT of work finding new AT's that are useful turning most her weaknesses into strengths etc. and they also need support from other players doesnt even need to be that much taj could've done if he had tons of support but he didn't instead of arguing make a difference and prove em wrong sorry about my long post but thank you for reading.

[OmegaSlayer]

Originally Posted by intro94

mortar gliding however, can be countered, and actually painfully punished, while in melee top tiers couldnt be countered nor punished,DK for instance has such a nasty counter that it forces snake to stop using it.

Yes, DK does stand a chance at beating Snake, barely, but top tiers in Melee can be countered or punished with via mind games and better use of priority if the lower tier character is using the right moves.

Originally Posted by intro94

A noob who often does mortar glitch can be predicted and raped.The glitch is not what makes snakes strong is his range,strenght and priority(and mind range games).

Of course because spamming it won't do you good. Everyone knows that spamming will get you so far till you start racking damage for your silliness.

Originally Posted by intro94

But even snake has a big flaw that lowers his goodness, his unability to return too close to the ledge glitch (if grabbed and released without hitting as you must know, he falls helpless regardless of his percent).So pro snakes have to return fast or die, force a c4 return(taking damage in the process) or return from certain places away from the edge.

The faulty of him doing that is pretty rare, since he can ship himself up way over the edge with his Cypher. The only problem when he's in the air is when the opponent has superior air movement and attacks to destroy him. Aside from that, that's the players lack of skill for doing that.

Originally Posted by intro94

Also his super armor frames from up b are denied by certain smashes(like bowsers foward smash-which hits under and away from the edge).

Doesn't change the fact that's he has other moves to tear Bowser (and nearly the rest of the cast) apart.

Originally Posted by intro94

Snake in brawl is NOT fox in melee.Heck, hes not even winning mayor tourneys like fox did.

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean he's not placing as high as he was. Just because Lucario & Kirby are placing high, doesn't mean his position will change extremely fast on the tier list. Heck, Mango beat M2K in a Jiggy ditto, but you don't see Jiggys going up in Melee's tier list do you? No, so until a huge surge of Lucarios & Kirbys start winning many major tourneys, Snake (mainly him) & Meta-Knight will stay up there until proven otherwise.

Besides, Melee Fox didn't win EVERY major tourney he came across, now did he?

Originally Posted by intro94

2nd it takes truly months to bring the best out of some characters and hours to get it from easy chars like snake as well, and some days to get into the right mind games tactics with him.Why spending so much more time of effort to get to the same result as hours can?because its a game, and in the end it pays to play with a character that nobody else does and win.

You know, you need to read what you type sometimes because you're not making any a whole lot of sense right now. If you're referring to lower tier characters that are barely played against higher tier character having a bigger advantage, then you're highly mistaken. Eventually, the player with the better character is going to figure out the opponent and ultimately doom his/her chances of winning (unless you're at EVO).

Originally Posted by intro94

PD:I mean, you think gliding is deadly but what about DKs grab and throw against the edge?that thing kills anything no matter who in 60% or 50%.Gliding annoys but DKs cheap grab KILLS.Just getting grabbed by dk anywhere around the edge=guaranteed kill if there is some damage.It works in Final Destination the best, but also anywhere else.

If pros can setup to that type of attack, then it's possible, but it's quite situational for that to happen, like Kirby/King Dedede suicides. It just won't happen so easily.

Originally Posted by intro94

Of course gliding is wonderful against noobs who have no idea whats going on, but any pro who fights snakes can do lots of things.

As long as they are playing weaker pros, then yes, but usually, the pros are not lacking too much in skill with their opponent, so it usually comes down to character choice & counter-stage picking.

Originally Posted by intro94

I know very well to use snake just for the record(know your enemy you know), It feels quite cheap personally(hitting with the jabs even when someone rolls behind me and i still can turn an do foward tilt, jesus!), i can press up a (tilt) when someone is 2 bodies away from me and i still 100% KO, gosh,...

It's called disjointed hitboxes. Apparently, you don't know him enough to take him down with.

Originally Posted by intro94

BUT then again, I have reached the same point of success after a longer road with my lower tier, since is mega rare to know a GOOD bowser, people dont know how to play me nor react giving me an extra boost that might balance whatever slight advantage snakes does has over my char.

What people are you referring to? Just some friends and random people you don't know, or good people high placing on Friendcodes?

Originally Posted by intro94

Is true at first was nigh impossible to win, frustating even, the first month. Later the victories began and eventually they were the majority.

I don't see how relative skill matters with Bowser's natural disadvantage over Snake (and other types of characters), but whatever helps you sleep better at night I guess. Besides, you probably do a Bowsercide when you get the chance, so knowing what you could do will eventually lead you to do a quick Forward B for a quick kill.

Originally Posted by intro94

And thats all i will say really,because this is pointless.If you defend your position like you do, then you must be doing super good at tourneys with your snake ,I HOPE you arent doing poorly nor you speak for someone elses achievements,that would be ...sad.Some guys believe in tiers because THEY cant seem to possibly defeat a certain/any snake/mk/anyone too..thats the wrong way to go as well.TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.

Well, the guy didn't take into account that tier is a guide, but instead, more like an official rule book. Of course it's not 100% accurate, but it's not just some randomly made up character popularity contest either. It's still usable nevertheless.

And yeah, this is pointless, but making a huge post like this isn't creditable you know.

Originally Posted by intro94

I mean, i have my point of view, and its working for me in real life (not theoricraft).
Seriously, a good game and watch for instance(like that guy back there) has always a good chance of winning any tourney, id be carefully of a godly game and watch.

Of course everyone has their point of view, and me & others understand they don't like/care about tiers, but blatantly saying "TR4Q" and "all characters are equal; I'm right, you're wrong, so shut up" isn't really going to quell things. Besides, some people want to get better, so they want to see who's doing well and who's not doing well in tourneys and such. So basically, a user bashing on the idea without good reasons isn't going to help them get better while wasting his/her time being negative. I just don't understand that.

Oh, and please, PLEASE work on your posting skills. It was horrifying just trying to understand anything from what you were saying.

[TOPIX]

Originally Posted by LittleMoogle

Who says you need 2 people?
All you need is yourself :P

I'm going to say this statement one last time

Pick a character, learn about his/her AT's and play-style
Next either learn Snake or MK and fully know their AT's and play-style

Are you going to tell me your not going to pick Snake due to a more technical playstyle or MetaKnights?

Think why people are picking Snake and MetaKnight, all of the people that picked fully learned his AT's and took advantage of the Mortar Slide chains, thus giving an upper-hand to all the characters in the Brawl Roster.

Are you going to tell me that Wave-Bouncing, or glide tossing... can actually beat Snake's Mortar Slide? Highly doubt it.

If a character has an advantage over everyone... thats a win in my book, but it doesn't mean he can lose once in a while.
Remember fox in melee?, No one can counter him >.> now he's top tier... go figure

Damn, you got me

[intro94]

i wont really spend much more time on this topic, since you ellaborated so profusely on your answers that really missinterpret most of what i said.
Playing on the internet here wont do anyone much good ,since lag affects a major part of the games.I did however, fight and won against several people here in the Friendcodes Hubs, some months ago(got really fed up with the lag and the players who never show up tho ).And trust me, it is much more pressuring, exciting and rewarding at live tourneys(and difficult too).However, if you do wish to fight me, just let me know and we can exchange fcs(as long as there isnt lag).If you want pictures or links of the events, i will get em as well.
So you defend your tiers(which i dont deny, i just undermine their importance).
What good is that information for AT ALL? i mean, seriously.Its very likely that everyone who manages to win a tourney has little or none idea of the tiers eventually(the Lucario player probably gave crap about tiers and he won anyway,and the guys who won around here have no idea what TIER is).If they guys who win dont know/care why would EVEN the guys who cant even reach quarters should.Obviously it doesnt help anyone get even a bit better.It doesnt improves your skills.Does tiers helped you?do you use some char because tiers told you so?I mean exactly in what manner the knowledge of tiers(which vary constantly right now with the game being so new) help you?